Nostalgia for the original NP

Neptune's Pride
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Hey @JayKyburz … was wondering if you still have the original NP? My friends and I loved the simplicity of that game and we were all devastated when it went down. Unfortunately none of us could get into Triton, it’s just a different game at its core. I tried it again recently and it made me nostalgic for the original.

Don’t get me wrong, Triton is beautiful, smooth and polished. But the complexity of the gameplay has destroyed it for us. NP was a masterpiece! Very few games have the brilliance of such complex diplomacy and strategy arising naturally out of such simple rules. Having a quick read over the comments on this group is surreal, with people requesting all sorts of detailed features that take it ever further away from the spirit. We desperately miss Neptune’s Pride. Are we the only ones who feel that way?

If there is any way you could revive it, even for a short time, we’d be endlessly grateful. I’d be happy to help port it from flash if that’s the problem. Otherwise, perhaps I could have your blessing to try to make a clone?

In any event, thanks for the many hours of fun. Your game was unlike any other I’d ever played. Truly mould-breaking.

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What are the main differences between the games?

I joined when Triton was in testing so only played the original game once. Can’t remember much except you could research ship speed and the interface wasn’t as nice. The range indicator was good though.

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Hello @ivanducttape

Thanks for all the nice words about the games!

Unfortunately, NP1 was build on a very early version of Googles App Engine and they have since disabled some of the technology it was built on. I would have to re-write large amounts code to get it to run.

Triton is not all that more complex. Please give it another try. I think the UI is a little more complicated, but I don’t think it takes to much to learn.

The range and scanning indicators were vector circles that were drawn in flash. Unfortunately they vector stuff was so slow in HTML Canvas back in the day that I had to switch to bitmaps that scale up. (Thats why they get bury.)

I should have a crack at doing the vector circles again for Proteus now that they tech has developed a bit more and my phone and iPad are a lot more powerful :slight_smile:

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So I found an old version of the rules from 2010, and from what I can tell there are four main differences I could find.

Trade is one of the most important aspects of the game. Players will need to trade Technology, Cash, Fleets and Stars in order to keep up with the other alliances in the Galaxy.

It’s not possible to trade fleets or ships to other players in NP2. Unless this is using ‘trade’ euphemistically.

Your fleet range and speed technologies dictate how far a fleet can jump, and how fast it will travel in hyperspace.

There is no speed technology in NP2.

There are 4 technologies you may choose to develop: Weapons, Speed, Range and Scanning.

There are additional technologies in NP2. Terraforming, Banking, Experimentation and Manufacturing.

…

There’s no mention of warpgates so I assume they did not exist.

Everything else seems identical.

When making custom games you can disable some technologies and minimise others. The closest you can currently get is:

Warpgates: Disabled
Banking: Level 1 + Research Disabled
Experimentation: Level 1 + Research Disabled
Terraforming: Level Any + Research Disabled
Manufacturing: Level Any + Research Disabled

Modifying the other settings like starting star number, average star resources, and stuff might also be useful. I’m not sure how many stars you started with in the original.

Update: Ah ha! There’s also a tutorial page available.

For each point of industry, you will build an extra 2 ships per day.

In NP2 this is 5 + Manufacturing so even with manufacturing technology disabled more ships will be produced.

You have 2 Scientific Research Facilities producing 12 Research Points / Hour.

It’s unclear how you get 12 research points from 2 research facilities. It might mean there is a total of 12 science built across 2 stars.

Natural Resources 2
Economy: 0 [Upgrade for $71]
Economy: 0 [Upgrade for $71]
Economy: 0 [Upgrade for $714]

The base infrastructure costs were different in the original with economy and industry costing the same while science is ten times as expensive.

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I think both games have their appeal, but I have to agree that whether it’s nostalgia working (i.e. only remembering the good stuff) or reality, the old NP1 felt more enjoyable. I also felt if you went behind in NP1 you still had a chance, with Triton if a good player gets ahead forget it (or gang up on them).
Having said that Triton introduced mobile playing and turn-based, meaning I can play at any time, but still have a life!
Whatever your preference thanks @JayKyburz for a fantastic game.

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And the old Avatars were superior… avatars I was promised, but shall never see again…

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I played both versions for several years each. NP1 was unplayable on a smartphone, the graphics are far superior on NP2. I think it was simpler, tech runaways less likely, but momentum still the determining factor. The alliance mechanics were better. I think the format was more amenable to diplomacy, but that might just be nostalgia talking

Speed was a hoot. End games were almost at twitch game speeds, and sleep was not advised if you wanted to win! I like better the warp gate approach of NP2

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Oh god it really is night and day. Sometimes less is more! Just couldn’t get into Triton, if I had never played np1 then I wouldn’t have known. Sure it’s great going down the road in your BMW suv but you had more fun in the 2CV.

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Thanks for replying @JayKyburz ! I am indeed playing a game of Triton at the moment. It’s better than I remember but I don’t think I’ll play another. It is hard to put my finger on my problem with it. Definitely isn’t graphics related, those were great in both games (though I did like the scanning and range circles of NP1). Personally I’m indifferent about it working off-desktop.

Yes, NP1 was less “fair”, but I think that is exactly what made it such a great game. The tech in Triton seems far too balanced. NP1 was cheeky upgrades to range while neglecting all others to launch a surprise attack. Napkin calculations to work out when your ally was asleep in order to backstab him. Lack of “intel” screen meant that you had to put more work into understanding galactic diplomacy … and more work into hiding your true alliances. Lack of complex ship orders meant you had to attend to the game more often. NP1 was underdogs banding together to take down an overconfident leader. Winning at NP1 depended on diplomatic skullduggery, in Triton it feels optional. NP1 was end games that had you setting alarms every 2 hours throughout the night - you earned your win and really mourned the losses. Finally I think the fact that games were less customisable helped. It meant that you couldn’t tailor a game to your preferred play style… so i am doubtful that Triton could even be “tweaked” to provide an NP1 like experience even if it were possible.

It’s hard to put a finger on why it’s so different, I’m not sure which specific mechanics changed but it’s definitely more than the tech system and base costs… The fleet speed tech made a big difference to the mechanics. The game ticks are much longer I think. Can anyone remember specific differences?

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Jay removed NP1 speed tech because players complained about unfairly losing their empire rapidly during sleep. NP2 has WarpGates, and NP3 has wormholes.

NP2 Premium custom games allow real time games that are 15 minutes per tick. Real time games actually run like turn based game though, because there are no partial ticks. All NP2 game events happen on exact ticks. The current game tick can be found by shortcut key “L” = Leaderboard.

Some NP2 players also set alarm clocks & lose sleep. NP2 premium players can buy badges for each other to help support the game. One of those badges is the Sentinel badge.

NP2 Turn Based games allow players to get some sleep.

There is currently a NP2 Premium custom game running that is 24 (or was it 48 ?) hours turn wait & 1 tick jump. This is a combination that is almost never seen. I forget the game number.

In custom games, the production timer can be set to other than 24 hours, so the unfairness can move around all time zones.

NP2 Premium custom games allow you to disable tech & preset tech starting levels for your play preference. So you could turn off Terraforming, Banking, Experimentation, Manufacturing and it would be similar to NP1.

NP2 uses simpler integer values for tech level calculations. I vaguely remember that NP1 used various decimals ?

I think it is the improved balance fairness over NP1 that allows more variation in player strategies, and makes possible for a 64 player game to run well. Have you tried the NP2 Triton 64 player game yet ?

NP2 allows a carrier to have up to 19 waypoint orders. Nice. Carriers can be set to looping.
NP2 carriers do not have an engine charge up time like NP1.

Here is an out-dated NP2 strategy guide. NP2 game mechanics have changed somewhat since then, but I think most of this strategy guide can still be relevant.

Diplomacy in NP2 still allows untrustworthy players to double-deal in alliances.

NP2 premium allows you to design custom maps.

Have you tried Jay’s new test game NP3 Proteous 16 players ?
This game removes Terraforming, but I think Jay intended the empires growth rates to be faster than NP2.

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts… who knows, maybe speed tech will make a comeback one day! :slight_smile: