Quitting immediately after starting a game

Have you tried making premium only games to see if its better. Do you find it too hard to fill a Premium only game?

I think some kind of questionare might be a good idea because, other than the two game limit I don’t know why you would quit a game before it even starts.

Let me know what is like for premium only games first.

Other than the two original slots, (standard and turn based) I rarely see the generic games filled at all. Have you got stats on how quickly each game type fills up?

Oh right, I can look myself. I used to have a daily email sent to me with how many games filled each day. I’ll have to find out what happened to it. I think I filtered into its own folder.

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Perhaps a small reprimand for players who quit right out the gate. Maybe something that effects your rank and reputation scores? AFKing removes 2 reputation or something. It’s a small penalty so that if life is actually really busy for you and you do AFK you don’t feel unduly penalised.

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Previously we have discussed early morning production times as a reason for quitting a game straight away but the new turn hour settings should have stopped this. It still seems to be happening though so maybe there is another reason too.

We might just have to face the fact that when some people realise they are in a game with me the fear takes them and they realise they have lost already :wink:

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of it comes about from people who quit because they don’t feel they drew a decent starting position. Personally I’m not sure yet whether I feel starting on the edge or the middle is an advantage or disadvantage, but I have people I play with who do.

I could easily see people who feel that starting in the middle is a disadvantage just quitting if they get a “bad” starting location. Especially non-Premium players who can only have two games at a time. Playing out a whole game of NP is a decent investment and commitment of time, so I could see why people maybe would just quit and join another one if they’re pessimistic about their chances of winning.

I’d be interested to see how many people who quit are non-Premium, and also out of those people who quit, how many of them join a different game fairly soon after quitting one. People who quit because things come up, or because they don’t want to play any more shouldn’t join other games soon after. People who join and quit over and over until they get a starting galaxy they’re happy with should be fairly obvious to spot.

Yeah I could see that. But in the trade scan games being in the corner isn’t all that great, plus there are likely to be many stars you cannot reach without HR upgrades.

In NP1, being a middle player in a random hex game was usually the kiss of death. Now, in a dark game with scan-only trading, the tables have turned completely.

In fours years of playing , I think I have been in one game without premature AFK/quit. It is the nature of the beast, I’m afraid, and the only solution is to beef up the AI.

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Yes, A good AI is what I decided the game need more than anything else, but it’s difficult to do when I can just find a day here and there to do the work.

If I wasn’t so behind on Blight I would take a week off and do a big push to improve it.

I will make time early next year I think.

I’d love to know what the status is with the behavior of the AI.

It seems to be different every time I play. You used to be able to count on AI to immediately go after any abandoned (non-claimed) star system, but now they seem to flatly ignore them, regardless of the size of the system or it’s proximity to the AI…

Recently they seem much more aggressive when it comes to defense, moving great fleets of ships into systems in range of an enemy fleet…

Given that (like the OP said) there is a real systemic problem with a lot of players quitting or even worse just throwing their tear-stained keyboard to the ground and leaving the game while their faction lays dormant for the 3 days it takes to default to AFK; manipulation and use of AI’s has become an integral part of the game. I would like to strongly support your intentions to improve the AI, and also to post in-game notifications said changes/improvements.

Thank you.

I am in a game now, dark, 48 hr turn submits, 6 tick jumps, 24 players , custom map 24L Three Neighbors, trade within scan range.
It is now tick 102, and there are 8 players AFK and 3 QUIT.

The 8 AFK players all have either 0 or 1 Victories, or less than 16 Rank, and less than 15 Renown.
One AFK player is Premium, and another AFK player is Lifetime Premium.

I have no clue whether any of these AFK players may be alternate accounts.

Two AFK were kicked after the first three submits, so no user activity, could be possible alts ? or maybe just to help start the game sooner ? Maybe they do not read their email ?

Three AFK were kicked on the fourth submit, so only active on the first turn, but no more.

A rank 21 player launched a lot of attacks, then was AFK at tick 84.

A rank 11, 1 victory player played a while, seemed to do OK, but became AFK at tick 90, and AI is still going strong.
A rank 16, 1 victory player played a while, seemed to do OK, but became AFK at tick 96, and AI is still going strong.

So 3/8 AFK players actually put in more effort to play the game.

Two quitters with 1 victory each quit just before an attack at tick 66 and 84, and the AI is still going strong.

One quitter with rank 104 quit at tick 24 when just losing a carrier. Maybe he did not like his starting position ?

There may be other interesting analysis that can be done . . . ?

One possible reason I think is that some new players just need some help learning the game.

More data might be needed to make more sense of this.

Perhaps Jay can build in a feedback survey for the quitters.

Not sure how to get AFK folks to feedback on any particular game. Perhaps a feedback box when they click on the AFK completed game.

Please check your reason for quitting:
I got started in another NP2 game.
I was not expecting to win this game.>>> bad luck/lack of allies/backstabbed/adverse battle results/low funds/behind on technology/stars out of my range/Allowing an ally to finish with the victory
This game is taking too long to finish.
I missed a key timing action.
I wanted better graphics.
Real time issues outside of the NP2 environment.

Other >>> text area for detail.

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I really don’t know how I feel about players quitting/going afk early. On the one hand it really ruins the game for everyone else and makes winning more about who gets the most afkers near them than anything else. On the other if your dealt a bad hand and it could take you months of playing time to actually be truly defeated I can understand not wanting to make the investment in time required to sustain being a “competitive loser”. And the diplomacy option is SEVERELY underutilized by the majority of random players in the game, making what could be an interesting exercise in manipulation a frustrating and doomed attempt from the start. Rarely do I find more than 1 or 2 players in a game willing to even discuss diplomacy, let alone truly astute diplomatic players willing to work together to overcome weaknesses.

And penalizing quitting/afk could easily wind up exacerbating the problem instead of resolving it. While the AI is far from excellent it at least puts up SOME kind of a fight. If you penalize quitting/afk the best result for those not wanting to stick it out is to ensure that you lose as quickly as possible which makes the fortunate ones near them even MORE fortunate.

Not sure what the solution could be, or if there even is one.

Some time early next year I’m going to get back into NP and spend a solid few months on the AI. I am really looking forward to it and wish I could do it right now.

2015 will be the year I make NP a really great single player experience so that even if every other player in the game AFK’s you will still enjoy yourself playing against fun, interesting, competitive AI that understand diplomacy!

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Hello Jay & other players.

I’ve only just started playing NP, & I’m not premium as yet, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.

First I want to second eplazaguest’s call for a feedback survey, I think this could be an easy win in finding out why people quit, and could also encourage people to think before quitting.

Secondly I think smaller games would be better for new players: less players means less risk of snowball quitting, and a quicker play time. vs AI games might also be a good way to make your noob mistakes without worrying about affecting other people’s experience.

Thirdly more balanced starting location might keep people keen. Asymmetry can create fun situations, but it can dictate your whole game, and chance of success, before you’ve even moved. So I think some way for games creators to control this and to have ‘fairness’ as the default would be useful.

Finally as this is my first post, I’ll just add: good work Jay!

Thanks for your feedback @hughganought

I have some bug plants to try and improve the experience for new players. I want to have a fun AI to play against, and even some kind of single player tutorials levels.

A Loss of renown perhaps?
Quitting could cost renown, and perhaps push you into negative #s. It would give a little more weight to that # and perhaps make someone think twice about quitting or allying with someone who clearly quits a lot.

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This post I made a while ago is related. I have highlighted the most relevant section.

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I’m sure this has been mentioned before, but it’s worth mentioning again.

There ought to be some options for allowing longer turn periods over weekends and various holidays. I noticed on Diplomacy online, that you can turn off mandatory check-ins over weekends/holidays. That might help mitigate some of the AFK players in the faster games (where turns are faster than 24hrs)?

That’s partly why I avoid game periods shorter than 24hrs is because weekends are rough for me to play on anything other than my phone.

As to the quiters I’d recommend what many people have stated: negative rep. Or a public player stat that says how many times a person has bailed on a game. That would help other players to:

  • align themselves with more reliable players
  • plan better contingency plans around AIs and divvying up resources

I’m in a game where I’m 1 of 2 left in an 8 player game. Everyone else quit before I had 2 techs at level 2. The 2 of us have agreed to work together against the AI. I’m sure it will be a different kind of fun. Similar to a six pack during a solitaire session. :blush:

I think I like the idea of ‘marking’ a player that quits/goes AFK frequently. Perhaps a scale similar to AI regard. A moving scale of -8 to +8. If you quit/AFK a lot you’ll be negative and conversely positive as you stick it out more.

I’m thinking the hardest part of this would be determining what a quitter/AFK is. Someone who sticks it out to top 5 in a 64 player game and realizes it’s hopeless and quits/AFK, should this count against him? My thinking here is people who don’t generally bail at the first sign of hopelessness will have no problem maintaining a positive standing.