Warning: Some Power Changes

Blight
21

As I was reading this I kind of realized that more power per unit means fewer casualties in terms of ‘people’, adding in a saving throw accomplishes the same goal in a different way; but then what use is a card like the healer for. I’d almost rather keep the generals as a power bonus rather than a saving throw; it makes more sense to me that way. I also kinda like the fact that casualties are fair; although I agree that a curve may be added rather than always a rough 1-1 with some randomness.

While reading your comment I stumbled into the idea of ‘well how do other games do this?’ Then the answer seemed relatively obvious to me; why not make it so that casualties aren’t the primary factor in scoring?

A lot of war games handle the idea of who ‘won’ based on ‘results’ rather than who did the most damage by using a victory point system. The idea is that every town and well would have a value assigned to it; either deterministic or assigned by map creation. The game then shifts towards ‘save the towns’ vs ‘reduce the casualties’; and it makes saving towns that have been recruited dry more important. Secondary scoring factors could also be added - such as casualties - that help to differentiate the scores moderately.

It still doesn’t solve the issue of faster being better though; although that may be intentional.

22

Saving lives is one of the core ideas of Blight. And really shouldn’t that be the objective of every game? (If we were set in 1944 the objective would be to stop Hitler but the highest score would be the player who lost the least Allied lives.)

Yes, I realised very early in the game that the game was a race against time. It can make the game really hard to balance, but I think we need to embrace it and make it work.

Power Changes

With regard to the power changes in the OP. I ended up not changing Tangle Mage until I think about it some more.

The Enchantress was changed.

And I went half way with the Marsh Warden. I added a new concept where the sting deals 200 to all units, friend and foe, that are not sheltering behind fortifications. The idea being you can if you have the time, you can get all your units into a troll town before unleashing whatever is in that barrel.

The Monks changed from being a super cannon to a similar AOE damage to all units not behind fortifications.

I’ll change the post above.

Thanks everybody for your feedback and discussion!

23

I am glad there was a chance here to discuss some of this before everything just got pushed to the server. I expect we’ll see more tweaking as the game continues to develop. That said, I disagree with your counter argument about saving lives being the best way to keep score…

History would be very different if this were true; not that I believe current views of war aren’t heading in this direction - but I want to refrain from dragging a political statement into this. War has generally been waged regardless of the cost; what has always mattered most is the outcome of those wars. What if both sides during WWII had said, great maybe now that Hitler has taken over Poland, Austria, etc we’ll leave it at that. In fact, WWII would have had a hundreds of thousands of fewer casualties; in fact both sides would have ‘won’ the war in their own viewpoint. For the Allies to stop the spread of Nazi Germany throughout Europe and eventually the Axis from the world, and for Germany - at least initially - to re-unite the Germanic states. Great you ‘won’ the war with the fewest possible casualties… but you still lost Poland, Austria, etc…

The goal of war has always been to achieve your objectives, the score is how well you met your stated goal and isn’t always considered alone by the number of casualties. If I recall my American history, during the Civil War, Ulysses S. Grant once wrote in a letter to Lincoln, that he would gladly trade the lives of two union soldiers for one of the Confederates. He said this, because he knew that the objective of re-uniting the country would be certain as long as the Union stayed the course during the war. Basically it was a war of attrition. Saying 10,000 soldiers were killed during the battle was kind of like telling the generals that it’s raining outside; it’s a fact, but what was at the top of their minds was whether they won the battle.

24

haha, sure. Perhaps I was being very generous to suggest that, its its most simple terms, the Allies wanted to risk the lives of soldiers to save the lives of all Polish and Austrian people from Nazi Fascism.

Even now you could argue that our countries are at war with ISIS because of Ideological differences, but I like to imagine we are attempting to save the lives the people they are attempting to enslave.

25

Storm warden costs a hell of a lot of mana to use (36) is this intentional? i think the marsh troll costs 8 for a similar effect

26

Do you mean this guy?

Screen Shot 2016-02-24 at 8.37.32 AM.png471×716 421 KB

Here is what I was thinking. Elf bows do 200 to a single target for 6. This guy does an elf bow attack to every unit in a 3 league range.

If I were able to deploy one in this mess somewhere I’d get 10 or 12 zombies for the price of 6. To balance things out a little, we made it so that it hurts friendlies that aren’t sheltering behind fortifications.

Screen Shot 2016-02-24 at 8.41.11 AM.png761×721 914 KB

It might not be perfect, but i’d like to play with it for a while before making adjusting it.

27

IMHO - Abilities that cost a lot of mana are less useful than abilities that cost a lot. I haven’t had a chance to get the Strom Friar in play and test it out, but my gut tells me that I would have to agree with Aran that it is a bit too costly.

  1. Getting 36 mana takes time; and I’ll rarely ever have that much since I’m spending it like crazy as soon as I get it.

  2. Usefulness is not linear to damage.

Ex. What if archers did 2,000 damage but cost 60 mana. Great; but I don’t encounter that many groups of more than 2,000. I’d rather have an ability that I can use in more situations even if it costs more for a similar effect; if that makes sense. I can stack 10 archers and get the same effect, or I can split their fire and get a ‘better’ effect.

  1. There’s generally ‘better’ strategic ways to spend mana.

Just a few thoughts on the point.

EDIT: Jay, what would you think about something like a 100 power attack that cost 10 or 12 mana?

28

Yep, I agree, 36 mana is tough to come by. But I was imagining it was for end game cleanup when you have heaps of valour too.

Another thing I have been trying to do is build some big cards, some super heroes that can be pulled out when you have heaps of valour and mana.

29

Heaps of valor and mana typically happens for me right about the time there’s only a handful of smaller messes to clean up. To your point about ‘super hero’ cards I can’t help but think of Loise Lane asking Superman to take out the trash…

Loise - Honey, can you take out the trash
Superman - Sure thing…
-Superman grabs the trash-
-Superman flies into outer space-
-Superman spins around a few times to build up momentum-
-Superman flings the trash towards the sun at 30,000 mph-

What did Superman just do? He took out the trash… the least spectacular thing in the most spectacular fashion…

2 Likes
30

I think the problem i have with the friar is that for the humans they do not have easy ways to get mana or build fortifications.
He could be very powerful in the right situation, effectively having 4x the strength of the elves witch and get lots of valour but as you mentioned you are talking end game.
Another option would be if you target his storm on an enemy(range 3) and it effects all units within a 1 league range, fortifications already give a bonus so wouldn’t give immunity.

31

Haha yes, Each power does have a separate range and area value, but I don’t yet have code to select a hex within that range and show targets in an area of that hex! Coming soon!

33

Eshal has the right of it. The Stormfriar ability is simply too expensive and not useful enough for the late game.

The late game has been for me the wind down period. It’s the easiest of the phases and usually the least intense or threatening. If you have made it to the end game you have already completed critical zombie hole clearance. Thus, area clearance isn’t super useful in the late game.

Here are some suggestions on how to make the Stormfriar more of a useful midgame unit.

  1. 36 mana is too much. Consider something like 25 or 30. The key metric here is mana pools and their production. Anything in excess if 20 is huge. It means the player has to effectively use the equivalent of a mana pool’s daily production plus some for this one action. It’s gotta be killer then, because the player had to defer a lot of other uses for that mana.

IMO, the effective cost on mana use goes up exponentially after 20. Any cost in excess of 20 is a big deal.

Worse, there is another cost to the Stormfriar’s ability… it is indescrimitate. For 36 mana (or even 25) I want something universally helpful, not situationally and certainly not something that could hurt my own forces.

  1. For a really large expenditure of mana I want an enduring effect. Consider making it so the area impacted also eliminates 33% of the bodies in an active zombie hole. (Like the Cyclops Priest)

Or, maybe have the zombies and all those damaged by the Stormfriar magic attack be slowed in terms of movement for, say, 8 hours or so?

So, this is my suggestion:

Str × 250 attack, all units within 3 leagues. Those damaged suffer -25% speed decrease for 8 hours. 22 mana. 12 hour cool down.

Or

Street × 200 attack, all undead units within 3 leagues. Also scours 33% of the unirisen bodies in the affected area. 22 mana. 24 hour cool down.

The first option is a strong rear guard action, busing time for the player to repostion forces. The second option is a midgame bomb of sorts, giving the player a chance to move from a defensive to an offensive footing in an area.

34

Also, Cowardly Noble? His ability is too expensive for the potential reward. Even if you hoard up to 40 valour and use his ability, you only generate 80 gold. That’s… not great and not even enough for a cheap unit.

I’d suggest one of two options;

  1. 1 mana generates 1 gold per point of valour. 12 hour cool down.

Or

  1. 2 mana generates 2 gold per valour. 24 hour cool down.

Option one is useful in certain situations… especially when you want a unit and are just shy the coin you need. It’s also cheap enough that if a player has left over mana, it’s a nice way to spend it. Not game braking by any means.

Option 2 seems a bit more in line with the current goal, but makes it a lot more palatable. It’s longer cool down helps avoid this being over abused.

35

Ok, What I’ll do is reduce the Storm Friar to 24, so it will be easier to cast, but increase the cool down to 24.

Thanks for the other suggestions. Good ideas to keep in mind if we think he needs to be boosted!

I think your right. Below are some brainstorming notes.

You can convert 10 Valour for 200 Gold at any time, so the idea behind these guys is that you can make that Valour work better for you.

Say you had two of these guys in your starting hand, you could deploy both for 200 gold, fire both powers for 8 Mana and make 80 gold (You start with 20 valour). (A bit lame)

Let’s say the card paid 10x your current valour. You would gross 400 Gold, Net 200 for 8 Mana. This feels more like it.

Late game though, once you have finished collecting locations and you are just smashing the horde, it’s not uncommon to have 100’s of valour. There is a player in my current game right now with 125 valour. With this he could me creating 1250 gold every 12 hours, per noble. A crazy amount of cash I think for 4 mana.

How about we try 5x your current valour. More than the lame 2x, not as crazy as 10x.

36

[quote=“JayKyburz, post:35, topic:5035, full:true”]
Ok, What I’ll do is reduce the Storm Friar to 24, so it will be easier to cast, but increase the cool down to 24. [/quote]

Woot. I think we will see it played more often with that cost structure. Lets see if it ends up overpowered.

Hope hey help. I am a freelance rpg writer and am always thinking about the intersection of rules,playability, and setting. All in all, I really like what Blight does. I appreciate you listening to feedback.

Re: Cowardly Noble:

[quote]I think your right. Below are some brainstorming notes.

,

How about we try 5x your current valour. More than the lame 2x, not as crazy as 10x.[/quote]

Yeah, that makes him a lot more attractive. Since he has to fight for space in decks with combat-focused cards, you have to give the player a strong reason to put a non-fast / non combat card in. This is much closer

37

Okay, next up for some thinking out loud is the Orc Dragonrider.

I love this card, but I don’t see it played. There are a lot of points about the card that should be analyzed.

First, is that it can only be deployed, like a dragon, at a Dragons Lair. At 2500 gold, it’s crazy expensive. It is powerful, and it’s cool factor is off the charts. When people play orcs and see they get a dragon rider, they want that card to be awesome. As it is, it is great, but it’s expense and restricted deployment make it unlikely to over get in a deck.

I’m a big fan of Occams Razor. Simple solutions where you can. Bear with me…

So, easiest way to make this card playable? Drop it’s cost. I’ll make other suggestions below, but they all likely bring with them some coding gymnastics that, while flavorful, add a lot of time to get right.

Option 1) Drop the cost to 1500 (like a regular dragon).

This makes the Orcs supreme masters of Dragons… which is part of their fluff. If an orc player captures a Dragon’s lair, they have the choice to pump out normal dragons, or, if they had the foresight to put in a Dragonrider card or two in their deck, get a Dragon++. If someone else captures the Dragonlair, their only option is a normal Dragon (ho hum)**

This also makes the Orcs the only race with access to something this powerful in their cards selection… reinforcing their fluff (their special bond with Dragons).

Option 2) Allow Dragonriders to deploy from Dragon Lairs and any fortified Orc settlement controlled by the player. Keep the cost at 2500.

This too reinforces the Orc-Dragon fluff and would give the orcs a special niche in their card selection. They would have an uber monster they could forward deploy (at great expense, of course). While still crazy expensive, the ability to push a dragon out of a settlement where it is most needed would be a big deal.

Option 3) Increase the speed of the Dragonrider, keep the stats the same, drop the price ro 2000.

This is a straight up utility mod. It gives the Dragonrider another area of competitive advantage to the default dragon while still being restricted where it can be deployed. This is my least favorite option.

** actually, the more I think about it, maybe each race should have a special card for each of their bug creature affinities? So, humans dont just have a standard giant card, they also have a unique giant card only they play from a Giant Cavern. So, if an elf player nabs a Giant Cavern they only have the regular giant to recruit, but if a human player captures a Giant Cavern they have the regular giant and, if they have the card, a giant++.

38

human_cyclops_rider.jpg512×512 107 KB

39

Hawt.

Seems you are way ahead of me. :slight_smile:

40

not sure how he fits into the game or what his power is yet.

41

Orc Warchief needs a new name. Orcs are all about the desert, no?

I suggest “Outcast Warchief.” Its a bit more in tune with the fluff – in this case, suggesting this particular guy has to live in the places the Orcs dont normally call home – but can be useful in those environments when the Orc horde turns to him and his specialized knowledge.