I reallllly like this analysis and think that it’s sort of the crux of the problem with the late game.
To go back to Jay’s original post: I think it’s 100% spot on to say that injecting more zombies into mid to late game won’t solve anything.
The undead growth is pretty simple and relatively linear right now. Basically the only way they get stronger is by having larger numbers. Sure, there are the bosses that show up when an undead takes a dunk in a mana pool, but once a player starts generating enough gold and valor, the quality of the units they possess, and the abilities they use, exponentially increases.
I think that some sort of portal or necromancer boss lord who continues to grow and produce/buff the units around him would sort of help give the undead a similar growth curve to what the player now experiences.
TL:DR -
I say the solution is stronger, harder to kill undead, rather than simply having more to fight.
It really doesn’t matter whether you do more or stronger… I doubt you could just do stronger without having more at some point. The players are going to be killing all the zombies, so at some point you need to put more of them out there anyway. Building on difficulty by adding more zombies with abilities would certainly help; I think I understand your point that more alone isn’t going to help.
Right… when I say “stronger” I’m referring to zombies that have more abilities that alter the game rather than actually having a stronger power.
I mean stronger in the sense that Ironhide is tougher to kill, or Trailblazer speeds up units around him. Perhaps that I should have used was more dynamic?
I also question whether a game always needs to be won by killing zombies down to the last man, as someone pointed out, by the end, chasing down that last goblin who’s stumbling around the woods somewhere is really a chore rather than a goal.
I like the idea of there simple, like a necromancer or portal, that would be extremely tough to eliminate, but once destroyed would end the game.
I like the direction you’re going in. Not sure I can comment more on the specifics until it is more fleshed out but I have been impressed with what you have put together so far so look forward to checking it out.
I’ve been meaning to come back in and draw this graph since last week. I’m not sure if it make sense at all. Blue for Zombies and Red for Player. Right now, the solid lines, the zombies peak too early and the player rise fast.
After this good discussion, it’s clear we want the zombies to grow alongside the player for longer, and once the relative strengths match, for the game to be over quickly after that. The faint dashed lines show where we want the game to be.
I really like the idea of a hell gate, and I think It’s a cool feature we should add, but Penny and I are pretty focused on trying to get to version 1.0 so I want to try and achieve it by fixing and improving our current zombies and systems first, then have fun with these kinds of things.
I really like the idea of linking the zombie bosses strength to the growth of the players so if you have any cool ideas I’d love to hear them.
The resource stealing bosses I think will grow every time you use those resources. Others might grow based on how many towns or armies you have.
I’m going to spend the next few days formulating a plan, then implement it over the next few weeks. It might be a rough few weeks while things change, and I imagine the game’s difficulty will be all over the place.
I think you can get where you want to be for V1.0 for ‘Normal’ mode games. I would say you’d probably be OK with everything the way it is now, except the Boss zombies. You’re spot on that they could use a little bit of work. I would go ahead and create a separate thread for suggesting Boss powers.
It’s late 1AM; I need to stop replying to posts and just head to bed.
EDIT: Your graph is spot on, and it summarizes exactly the problem that has been discussed here.
