Neptune's Pride - Proteus - Wormholes

Holy Wild Wormholes Batman! :wink:

Love the idea - not sure of the implementation. BTW, why do they have to be in ā€œpairsā€ - i.e. maybe ALL wormholes are interconnected and you have a random chance of getting sent to one! :wink:

Or maybe per the the ā€œspinning black holeā€ concept, you favor a certain wormhole if you enter from a specific direction.

1 Like

Cool concepts. What if wormholes have to be maintained somehow? Maybe you need to expend $ to keep them stable (spend funds on the trans universal quantum stabilizer beams or something) or they randomly deposit some % of your ships elsewhere (or outright destroy them, although I like the weird dynamics of ā€˜lostā€™ carriers). More stability = better odds for your fleets, but since itā€™s percentages, it doesnā€™t over favor those already in the lead. I.e. itā€™s cheap to send some, expensive to send many.

The other idea I like is maybe they orbit the galaxy and hence change outputs regularly.

1 Like

One theme I donā€™t think has been mentioned specifically that is worth thinking about:

In a non-dark galaxy with one pair of wormholes is it made clear which ā€œstarā€ is the other side of the wormhole on the map? Or do you find out when you get there?

Where there is more than one pair, is it made clear which are pairs, or do you only find out when you go through?

I think it should be clear where the exit is so that you can plan ahead.

There will be no such thing as a dark galaxy for proteus so that should not be an issue.

However, you canā€™t see who owns stars outside your scanning range in proteus, so you canā€™t say for sure who will be occupying the surrounding stars.

1 Like

How would that work in a dark galaxy?

This has been a really usefully discussion today guys. Thanks very much.

Nevermind that question thenā€¦

Big fan of this idea.

Can you see star names or are they blanked too?

I think you can see star names so you can talk about them. Otherwise people will just be trying to send screenshots around with confusing drawings scrawled on them. :slight_smile:

Can you give us a tool to colour in the galaxy, please?

E.g. Red tells me that planet x belongs to him and planet y to Blue. Something that allows me to highlight planet x as red and planet y as blue.

Whether he tells the truth or not I wonā€™t know until I get thereā€¦

After scanning down the thread i have to agree on the side of those who mentioned randomness to the wormholes and being separate from stars them selves. With the mystery of heading into a wormhole and not really knowing where you come out adds two flavors to the way you would handle them, send in a small greeting force to see on the other side or send in a big enough force to take and hold what ever is on the other side till reinforcements arrive.

Another fun thing they could do but i donā€™t know how difficulty or how much chaos it would cause but to have them randomly/periodically blink in and out existence, either in the same place or in different locations.

1 Like

Another idea is perhaps the wormhole has a random chance of destroying some random number of yours ships. This increases depending on how powerful you are - i.e. it could be used as a leveling mechanism so that the game leader doesnā€™t further run away with things.

I think this was partly my idea, if I may be so conceitedā€¦ my two slug cents: make them so that they canā€™t be bought and are a natural map feature.

As a caveat, Iā€™m not deep enough into things to know how different Proteus is, so if itā€™s markedly changed in game play than the basic build of NP and my thoughts arenā€™t applicable, please just ignore me.

This is an interesting, but frightening idea. It seems that a wormhole nearby would add another front to my empire, and put all the stars in itā€™s range in constant danger. If I didnā€™t siphon ships from my real front lines to mount a nuclear deterrent defense, then I would run the risk of a raiding fleeting being able to take out a lot of my unprotected stars really quickly and cripple me. Zerg rush style.

If I kept it well defended, then I might not be able to guard my real front lines, or may not have enough extra ships to mount an offensive elsewhere, so would stagnate. While a player who didnā€™t have the extra threat to defend against would have the advantage against me.

Some thoughts on implementation :

  1. Travel through them should be fast, but not instantaneous (I donā€™t think thatā€™s been suggested, but I wanted to throw it out there), maybe 10x normal speed? If weā€™re talking about wormholes that cross the entire galaxy, then that still leaves many hours of transit through this Hyper-hyperspace.

  2. Once a wormhole is entered, players within scanning distance of the other end should be able to see a countdown timer that gives notification when a fleet will be exiting the wormhole, but no other data. Energy readings might be indicating that mass is traveling through the wormhole which would allow extrapolation of ETA, which would give time to prepare on the receiving end. I like the idea of no other information being available through the wormhole. No scanning data, no I forgot about where youā€™ll come out on the other end. Otherwise it feels like it would give too much more of an advantage to the attacker.

  3. They canā€™t be owned, destroyed, built, or occupied, but upon exiting a wormhole you hover there for maybe a tick or two and during that time youā€™ve got to choose your destination, otherwise youā€™re fleet will be sent to the nearest star. I see this as the ships carrying inertia and momentum upon their exit, and unless they make a navigational choice and commit to it quickly, theyā€™ll be gravitationally encouraged to head toward the nearest massive object. For the attacker, this means that if I want to direct my fleet, Iā€™m going to need to time things right and be logged in once I can scan on the other side of the wormhole or risk ending up somewhere I donā€™t want to to be. For the defender, this gives me some sort of idea where the attacking fleet is likely to end up, and I can defend with a bit more certainty.

1 Like

Surely this is just the equivalent of starting in the corner vs starting in the middle. Itā€™s just an extra border, but one that is weirdly placed in the middle of your empire. Sure, itā€™s probably a disadvantage if youā€™re small compared to the violent guy on the other end, but itā€™s another option to attack if youā€™re bigger.

Wormholes is an awesome idea!

I feel like I have some really good thoughts on how it should work.

-There should be one planet (Planet X) near each wormhole (random distance but closest one) which is where you would land if you come in from the other side. This makes defending possible.

-Planet X also gets you scan on the other side of the wormhole (Maybe half your scan range, as having info on the middle of your enemies territory is huge.)

-You can send into the wormhole from any planet, meaning that people who donā€™t control planet x could go in blind, which could lead to some good backstabs/tactical play relying on an ā€œalliesā€ info.

-The travel time to the wormhole and then to planet x on the other side would be how long the trip is, the actual trip through the wormhole can be a tick.

Yep that ā€˜costā€™ is what I also had in mind. Scales non-linearly so itā€™s easier/cheaper for small number of ships to go through. And the cost is always a percentage of total traveling ships. You might mitigate this by paying some $ but again, diminished returns.

It is an extra border, but it will threaten a larger number of stars then an enemy on a conventional border.

If my empire is a perfect circle for example, and letā€™s say Iā€™ve got 16 stars evenly distributed inside that circle. An enemy on my conventional border might have direct access to four of those planets, and by creating a defensive barrier on those 4 planets, I can effectively protect my entire empire.

If a wormhole is placed in the center of my empire, then my enemies ostensibly have access to most or all of my planets immediately, and I would need to have a working defense to cover all of them.

Many times Iā€™m walking the razorā€™s edge as it is, and I feel that a wormhole could be a big disadvantage to the defending player.

If the idea is to use it to encourage aggression, then it could be left as is, since it feels unbalanced for the defender. Otherwise I think there would need to be some way to balance for the defender, maybe the ability to meet the fleet at the exit to the wormhole with a big attack bonus, taking the fleet off-guard as they drop back into conventional space?

That depends on how theyā€™re implemented. If you canā€™t be fought by the un-warned guy on the other side at the actual warp gate, and are allowed to go to your planet of choice when you arrive at the warp gate then yes, I agree. But if youā€™re warned something is coming through, and can fight at the warp gate or the incoming fleet has to go to the nearest star, then itā€™s essentially a one star border.

I donā€™t think that the wormhole being a choke point one star border is a bad thing. Since it will be in the middle of someones territory it makes it defendable, but as I said in my idea it would be worth holding that one planet if you were the only one to get scan data on the other side of the wormhole.