New 6 Player MP Map: Watering Hole


#1

Join a test game here: https://blight.ironhelmet.com/#/game/6467826055380992

6 players: Humans, Orcs, Dwarves. This is a mirrored map that will most likely be a team map later.


#2

I’m in!


#3

What’s one more game: running simultaneously… well 8 but that’s not the point. I’m in too


#4

You asked for reviews of the map

currently mode of the game
pluses
the mix of terrain and general appearance of the map
(big one) the starting positions have 2 zombie spots to attack, I’ve found it far more interesting when you have 2 fronts and have to decide where to send what forces
mixed
each of the posistions look like they will have different difficulty (at least early game) - bottom player has no risk of a boss, and has early access to the orcs gift of flame to destroy the spawning point, middle player will probably be twiddling there thumbs for a while due to lack of speed with dwarfs and distance from blight, top if allowing things to get out of control i think would have a hard time, otherwise easy
minus
only 3 races (but understandable as its basically a 3 player map doubled)
I’m concerned it could become a solved map more easily than others - bottom player gets a gift of flame on sole starting location & blocks zombies from expanding, top gets out a dragonhelm knight to deal with the top spawn point and gets some gnostic mages and dragonhelm knights to control top middle blight, middle goes to control bottom middle zombies

team vs team
In general do the boss zombies effect both teams?
either way the top area with blight & a mana pool strikes me as a way that team games might be decided for no good reason execpt randomization of pathfinding - I think a team whos first dwarf zombie decides to got to the pool will be at a downside for most the game with less mana production & a zombie boss - its also far enough away its hard to project force there before it could theoreicatlly first fall
Is the map meant to be entirely symmetrical? there are at least 2 hexes which aren’t the same on both sides, I don’t think they would change the outcome of a game, but can imagine teams getting into an argument over it regardless

hope thats not too long


#5

Thanks for the feedback @starry_wisdom. The hexes should be the same on both sides, except right at the edges. I’ll have another look to check them.

The bosses will affect all players in team games. We think that the overall game will still be ultimately cooperative, so that the game will only end when all zombies are dead. The winning team will be the one with the most survivors in their towns, but you still might need to chip in and help the other side to end the game or stop them from overrunning the whole map.

There will be an element of luck / randomness with which way the zombies move and which bosses spawn. But hey that’s what rematches are for!


#6

The asymmetry I was talking about (and why I could see a small risk of arguments over them)

  1. a hex above the starting location for the top humans (one is grassland, one is forest), as this is a path that I think the zombies will take, sometimes the curse of the plains will not take effect for as many hours when the zombies advance
  2. a hex at the top that one one side is a mountain one is a desert - I can only think that relivent if the zombies got the orcs or a very unusual starting order

dwarven mana pool - if the undead dwarfs leave straight away for it its 11 hours for them, for the humans to protect it it’s 17, personally I think if it was shifted one hex south west on the east side (and mirrored on the west), there would be a long enough delay its the players own damn fault for not securing it


#7

Started up another copy of this map… Would really like to see active people join… There is no password.


#8

Thanks, I found those hexes and fixed them up. I’m making some tweaks to this map based on our current play through. I was worried it might be too easy, but it’s looking about right for normal I think. Jay is getting smashed by the Orcs down south haha.


#9

Bottom middle as well is asymmetrical. Should be a mountain I think

However this will make is very slow and hard to get across from one side to another.


#10

Yeah, it’s a bit different around the edges. I tried to keep the “playable” area identical, but there is slightly more edge on one side of the map and the rivers make those top/bottom bits a bit skewed. If people think it’s unfair in team mode, I’ll change them to be the same.


#11

The top player position of the map is one of the better maps I have played so far - the tension between there being 2 areas of blight is excellent in my opinion, my only concern is it being too easy, - I wonder I have more experience at this type of game than most as I have been playing similar for most my life (plus I like hard games), the difficulty seems in line with the other maps though, so I don’t think its an issue with the map.

I’m playing a different game in the bottom position, it seems far harder, unsure if thats due to me not being very good with orcs though…


#12

Looking at the stats – something needs to be done with the middle positions. Right now they exist purely as support - to keep the south and north players in the game. Thats… kinda boring. Not being able to have at least some sort of fight to be part of until the mid-game (or later) doesnt play to the strengths of Blight.


#13

the 2nd game i’m playing of this is an interesting addition - the both tops are progressively getting worse, both middle haven’t engaged yet, my bottom has, other bottom is about to, the likely outcome I think is both tops go into immense pressure middles come to the rescue while bottoms come up to reinforce. I would take this also as evidence that the middles can’t engage quickly enough.


#14

I’d disagree, I think in the middle position you’re kind of responsible for both fronts. In the northern half there is the well to try and protect, and in the southern half you’re almost the main front to protect the Dwarf towns. Unfortunately dwarves are slow, although in the game I’m playing I may be able to save one of them.


#15

Well, just looking at the stats in my game – both middle players havent engaged the zombies and we are progressing into the mid game for the West and the end game for the East. Our middle player is great, and, I think, has been the key to the east’s movement, but as a player, being in a situation where you play only a support role is a bit of a downer.

Starry noted above that the other game has the middle positions in the same spot. If this is the design goal, then I have no beef. But for most players “hey sit back and send the other guys resources” isnt attractive.

I do think making that middle dwarf zombie threat clearly more of the middle player’s responsibility might be the easy fix.


#16

On the other map you’re talking about I’m assuming you mean “Celestial Pools”… If so I would say the middle player is actually the most important there, next would be the Trolls in the SW and NE, and the supporting players would probably be the NW and SE.


#17

er we are talking about 2 games on watering hole, I started a second game with another friend new to the game, in both the watering hole games the middle spot is taking a long time to get into action (probably just altering the location of a road or the water passage would fix it)


#18

you know what numbers can help this
top player (assuming human standard speed of 4 hours a league (humans))
quickest time to blight above 5road=20 hours
quickest time to blight below 2
road+2plains=8+12=20 hours
middle player (assuming dwarf standard speed of 6 hours a league (dwarfs))
quickest time to blight above 3
road+3plains=18+27=45 hours
quickest time to blight below 1.5 mountains+ 4.5 of plains = 18+40.5=58.5 hours
bottom player (assuming standard speed of 3 hours a league (orcs))
quickest time to blight above 6 * plains=36 hours
quickest time to blight below 4
plains=24 hours

tl;dr
top player is 20 hours until they are in combat
middle is 45/58.5 hours
bottom is 24/36 hours


#19

Yeah, part of my consideration might be based on the fact that I have a bit more complete deck, and I wouldn’t consider the shortest path to be first blight, but rather first defend-able position. So for middle player I get…

3X Urchin by Road + 3X Humans by Plains = 30 Hours OR
2X Dwarf by Road + 1X Human by Road + 3X Humans by Plains = 34 Hours

and…

2X Mountain Lord by Mountains + 3X Dwarf by Plains = 39 Hours OR
2X Urchin by Mountain + 3X Urchin by Plains = 34 Hours

Not too bad at 34/34 Hours


#20

if we are considering complete decks and first defend-able positions the times for the top and bottom player would be shorter as well, not 100% sure at what sort of amount as it depends on where you consider defend-able etc