New badge of honor: Barbarian


#1

I guess this is a “FR” but I’m just gonna leave it here anyways…

I propose ‘Barbarian’ as a new badge you can award to players. Sort of like if ‘The Strange One’ and ‘Toxic’ had a baby, it would be a ‘Barbarian.’

I’ve been playing against this total @$$hat player (reminds me of that 13yr old nonstop shade thrower we’ve all played against in Halo at some point) who is not only annoying with his in-game messages and sophomoric renaming of stars, but also his tactical moves - constant taking of stars but not holding them (like an AI’s death rattle desperate moves). And apparently he doesn’t realize how slow moving this game is, because I correctly told him he had already lost but he somehow doesn’t seem to realize it yet (or refused to admit it).

Anyways, I was reminded of this scene from Gladiator in which one of the generals says, “People should know when they’re conquered.”

So I propose the following new badge:


Barbarian - 2 credits: This badge is for the savage players who’s erratic strategies and unpolished/uncivilized diplomacy leave you cringing at their last moves as they adamantly refuse to admit when they have been conquered and instead go down in a wild blaze of unclaimed glory.

Thoughts?


Gentleman Badge
#2

Sounds to me mostly like you are just annoyed with this player LoL. But regarding that quote…its hilarious you mention it because I think of the quote all the time in this game! hahaha.


#3

Do you really think players should quit as soon as they know they can’t win? I’m asking seriously, I’m new to the game. I fight on both to learn how to fight better, and to weaken whoever is fighting me so someone else can take them out. But is that considered bad behavior in this game? I’ve taken a large fleet deep into enemy territory, raiding his stars for their economy and moving on when he counter-attacks. Is that considered poor sportsmanship?

If so, I have a couple of games I know I can’t win I’d better quit…


#4

Its not poor sportsmanship at all and no I (and surely most of us) don’t think they should quit as soon as they know they can’t win…I just wish they would when its me that they are digging in against in an inevitable outcome and they are just making my life difficult! :wink:

In the context of the movie and the quote, Maximus replies “Would you Quintis?..Would I?” To me the implication is that in a war with an inevitable outcome and an overmatched opponent, it is actually they who will win the war that wishes it would end quickly, smoothly, and efficiently. The destined loser of the war is often the one that digs in, prolongs the conflict as much as possible, fights to the last, or in the case of the Barbarians of Gaul – get slaughtered while maintaining their idea of honor and bringing as many Romans down with them as they could.

In an NP2 game, often those that are outmatched will quit (best case for the colonizer), half-ass their resistance, or dig in and resist as tough as they can and slow their takeover as much as possible. It is in the latter case that I remember the quote and just wish they would go away…but I know that I would not as well. Being known as someone who will concede quickly is a dangerous reputation to garner in my opinion since those are the ones that I (and likely others) would be most likely to target first. I’d rather be known as the guy that is going to battle you tooth and nail to his last ship and make your game a living hell when you are trying to take my stars.

All of this is not even to mention the fact that in further answer to your direct question the way it was posed – if players quit when they think they’ve lost it really breaks the game. First off, many of them will be wrong and they haven’t lost yet. Secondly, it does a disservice to others in many ways, specifically by allowing an already strong player to get stronger easily by getting their stars (the AI is better nowadays, but still a push over compared to a human whose actively defending). Thirdly, even if you can’t “win”, you can still have a drastic affect on the outcome of the game, often dictating who will win, thwarting your conqueror, rousing a resistance, becoming a martyr, etc. In my experience, it is very often the “losers” of a game that actually end up making much of the determination in who the winner is.

In games I play, I find my personal victory conditions change as the game progresses. Sometimes I realize I can no longer try to win and in those cases getting a victory or a top 3 finish for an ally might become my ultimate goal and my personal victory. Or in some cases, simply bringing an enemy down with me is all the victory I can snatch from a game…but that doesn’t necessarily make it less sweet or less important.


#5

Barbarian - 2 credits: This badge is for the savage players whose erratic strategies and uncivilized diplomacy leave you baffled.

They adamantly refuse to admit when they have been conquered and instead go down in a wild blaze of unashamed glory.

Made it a little less person specific, I also think it’s “whose” but someone can check that :slight_smile:


#6

Completely agree. I would love to have this badge! Great discussion on the topic here, from the perspective of a few “barbarians”


#7

No, not at all. Please understand that I do mean to distinguish between quitting (and going out with dignity, especially if you are in an alliance!) with grace and being a huge jerk about things.

And @Valhallan touches on this more below - and hits upon the other side of the equation quite nicely:

The destined loser of the war is often the one that digs in, prolongs the conflict as much as possible, fights to the last…

Indeed. And I, too, am dedicated to going down with my guns blazing - never give up, never surrender!

But just do so honorably, that’s all I’m saying. If I am going to lose, I am going to do so gracefully. Just the same as I would if I were to win. We all know what good sportsmanship is - and I suggest the Barbarian badge to label those that possibly don’t (or, more likely, just don’t care about it)!

And I also agree with Valhallan - quitting is a disservice to other players in the game. And he absolutely nailed the part about “personal winning conditions changing.” I really have nothing to add to it, other than to say: here, here!

On a side note, I randomly came across this thread that gives a really good explanation of why you should always go AFK instead of conceding, if you ARE going to quit.


#8

Right on…thanks! I like this version better, good job :smiley:

And yeah, I stopped and thought about 'whose" too - but I wasn’t sure. haha!


#9

Thank you for the thoughtful and fun to read reply. What a great community here!

I shall take your words to heart and continue to play as I have - I may be defeated, but I am never beaten!


#10

Hi Solrax!

I’m the player in question and no, you shouldn’t quit. The fact that I didn’t is what irritates our pal here.

You see, she was counting on me to roll over and fold when she stabbed me. Instead, I opened up my backyard to her #1 rival and let that guy take 60 planets, all the while fighting ithinkchaos to a stand-still on our mutual border.

At the end of the game, she had to NAP with her rival because of what I did. He got four of my planets, and only because her rival let her.

I killed close to 12,000 of ithinkchaos’ ships while losing about 8000 of mine (being that I had a 5 level tech advantage over him during all this). I captured ten of her planets while she captured three of mine. More importantly, I stopped her advance cold for three days: she’s right wheres he was when she first stabbed me. And did all this with a force that was never more than 1/4th the size of chaos’.

When I got stabbed, I knew I was going to lose. From that moment on, my priority was making sure ithinkchaos’ rival won, while doing as much damage to ithinkchaos as possible.

ithinkchaos might not be able to grasp this as “strategy” because he seems to be the kind of player who was raised by an over-achieving Little League coach of a father who thinks winning is everything. Thus, if she can’t win, she’ll drop out and start another game.

Me? I’m old school. 48 years old and brought up on SPI board wargames. To me, THE GAME is everything. I will stay in one as long as it is interesting and fun. And when ithinkchaos’ rival exploded in my direction, I knew I was going to lose. At that point, I determined I was just playing for the fun of it. When ithinchaos stabbed me, my goal changed to helping her enemy win and doing as much damage to her as I could.

Those two goals I met and exceeded.

And I must say, even while “losing”, the game has been a hell of a lot of fun precisely because of those two goals. More fun, in fact, than many games where I’m winning.

So it all boils down to what you are playing for: do you play to win or to hone your skills and have a good time? For me, it’s the second option. And nothing hones your skills better than fighting a delaying action and a guerrilla war. It’s usually a knuckle-biting good time, too.


#11

First of all, I love this badge idea and I would wear one with pride if ithinkchaos were to choose to buy one for me. Ultimately, what this badge says is “This guy is unpredictable and thinks outside the box”.

I would even buy one for you, ithinkchaos, but frankly, your strategic abilities need to come up a notch or two before you’d be worthy of it.

Regarding the planet name changes, I am happy they irritated you. That was the point.

You probably won’t recognize this as you seem to think you are some sort of rational strategist, but every time I insulted you by changing a planet’s name, you jumped at that planet like a frog tapped with a cattle prod.

On several occasions, you could have gone after my feeder worlds, hit warpgates, done any ammount of mischief, but you were apparently so focused on removing those “insults” that I could pretty much rely on you to head right where I was waving the red cape.

And you are right: it’s a thirteen year old boy’s trick. And for that reason, it generally only works on thirteen year old boys.

You might want to ponder that one a bit, ithinkchaos. :wink:


#12

Wow…just wow. I don’t even know what to say. And I’m not really sure you get how important diplomacy is to this game or what truly transpired…but that’s besides the point.

You obviously missed my meaning here entirely. I am not irritated at all by someone who doesn’t quit and digs in instead (see my comment above) - I myself never quit either. I enjoy a good opponent and actually don’t want anyone to quit before the game ends.

It is your entire demeanor - and, quite frankly, complete lack of grace that bothers me. You are beyond annoying. If you are truly a 48 year old man, then I feel sorry for you.

I am done responding to you, I have absolutely no desire or time to join you at your level. But as long as you are enjoying yourself - what the hell - by all means, do what you do best.

Strength and honor,
ithinkchaos


#13

I’d give this as recommended reading for everyone: When going AFK is better than Conceding! (or why to never concede)

EDIT: Whoops! Someone already linked it :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine, ithinkchaos? :slight_smile:


#15

I like the idea of Barbarian badge but, except for one, badges are a positive reward for people you enjoying playing with, not as some kind of black mark against their game.

I like this. somebody who will stick around and have fun even if they are not going to win. Sound exactly like what @Macunaima is doing.

The Toxic badge is a bit of an experiment and I wear mine with pride. I pissed some guy off so much he spent 10 Credits to brand me with it. I think sometimes it does hinder my ability to get into a good alliance but hey, if I’m going to have it in the game I feel like I should be walking around with one.

Some people are using Cheese as a negative badge, but its not meant to be and is kind of ambiguous so if you have lots of cheese just tell people it’s a good thing.

Regardless, the more badges you have, the more you have contributed to the game, regardless of whether it was as a heroic ally or a pain in the but enemy.


#16

Ah, my fofolete! You are amusing, you know that? I mean, you really make me giggle, ithinkchaos.

I NAPed your enemy, fought you into a position where YOU had to NAP the same guy and effectively took you out of the alliance which was the only chance of stopping the game winner.

And I don’t understand diplomacy?

Please, sweetie. Menos, por favor.

I’m a bit hurt by your opinion that I lack grace, however. I may be a 48 year old wargamin´ ex-punk rocker, but I put a lot of effort into cultivating grace. In fact, I have a bunch of it budding away in my grow bucket right now. Amazing Grace. It’s supposed to be the shizz. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

[Your favorite faux macho comicbook quote here]
Macunaima


There should be a Badge for most F'ed started position
#17

Jeez guys, get a room!


#18

Why? You want some Amazing Grace? :two_women_holding_hands:


#19

There’s more truth in this than you suspect. Very often, the games we play come alive if and only if you find an opponent worth hating. Enemies make the game, not friends. One of the biggest strengths of the game is that dark possibility of a friend giving you an evil backstabbing. That sinking feeling when you see his fleets go the wrong way and the tech trades stop flowing. Was that fleet headed to a key planet a misclick like he claims, or is he getting an early vantage point for assault? The possibility of being trolled, harassed, double-triplecrossed, enraged, scared and so much more all stems from the evil side you know is lurking in all of your alliance mates. The most visceral of all rewards that the game can deliver is bringing such an opponent down, but first he has to exist.

So, by allowing yourself to be evil, you are doing the game and all it’s players a service. I will go so far as to state the opposite: by always honoring your alliances and your deals, you are being selfish, and putting easy wins above engaging gameplay.

Therefor, I take my hat off to @Macunaima for fighting spirit and sustained motivation when faced with doom. However, there’s a limit, and onesided trolling and needling is never funny, no matter how good a target @ithinkchaos presents for it. Take your win, and go to the next game :smile:

disclaimer: like all human beings, i suck at taking my own advice, and often succumb to the temptation of building a steamroller alliance. I apologize to everyone involved, and vow to worsen my ways!


#20

I always found your toxic badge really funny. I’m also very proud of my little hat. But the negative thing is an issue.

The only thing I thought of was when you were presented with a badge, it also came with an avatar. So toxic would come with a really scary, disgusting avatar. An exclusive avatar for badge holders, so you got something positive out of it as well.