It does make it interesting, and frankly, I think it should remain that way. If you pay for a Formal alliance, you should get a few perks. Always being able to trade with your ally should be one of them.
Thanks for figuring that out Andy.
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So I’m playing in the Dark Spiral game which only allows trading with players in Scan range which is the first time I’ve done … and this is a GREAT feature.
If a posse of people come into a game, they can not help each other out unless they are lucky enough to be near each other … so it’s a big “leveler” and gives the individual player a fighting chance.
As much as I like formal alliances, this defeats that “leveling” since using it as a trade mechanism allows a posse to get really strong at the expense of the less well connected players.
So I’m thinking you might add a secondary option that allows formal alliances, but doesn’t allow trading with that approach - i.e. you must truly be in Scan range.
I agree Hulk, that’s what I meant by it being “broken”. Right now with formal alliances on, it doesn’t really make a difference.
Thats a joke right? I only ask because I can’t stop laughing considering it is coming from you given the specific game you’re referring too.
In a custom map where all players except 2 have two neighbors, 30 players have two potential trade partners. The ones on the ends only have a single possibility. When you have a player AFK from the start, as clearly Hulk has, you have a lot of early expansion. Then being able to coordinate with another player to take out one novice player that was almost AFK from the start, and one experienced player, gives you a huge star count from the very beginning. That allows you a huge amount of Science over everyone else. Then you get to start sharing with the number 2 player (my overly friendly neighbor) who also has a higher than average star count within the first week of the game.
So the two of you have the top two star counts and science counts, one week into the game. Now that you are within scanning range, you can easily outpace everyone else in research and you call the field level?!?
I’m sure the scan restriction works better in non-linear maps, particularly the system generated 64 player games, where everyone has a reasonable chance of multiple trade partners, but it doesn’t work at leveling anything in a linear map like the Dark Spiral. Especially for those of us who’s only trading partner is an overly aggressive, emotionally unstable player like my neighbor.
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I understand and even agreed with @HULK’s request at first, but on second thougth, your ally is simply acting as middleman of the communication service.
Since Formal Alliances allows you to use ally’s scanners to gather data, and scanners are also used to send trade data, it is straightforward the ability to use ally’s scanners as relays.
But it would be interesting an option to have Formal Alliances that do not share scanners.
I don’t disagree in a linear map it can be challenging, but it certainly forces you to talk to your neighbors (which can sometimes require real diplomacy!) … and weigh staying friendly (and sharing tech) with them versus going to war for expansion. Adds a whole new dimension versus what I’ve seen in games where a posse just comes in and dominates.
FYI Brian that you are wrong about the AFK - Orange Circle was my neighbor to the right and they started playing, but then quit. And you made a play to my South that didn’t work out, so I got a head-start that direction too - thanks! 
One player told me they actually had two AFK’ers on either side of them … and we commented that while that was usually a HUGE advantage, it isn’t as much of one here because you have no way to share tech. So you are able to grow easier, but will lag behind in tech compared to other players that are willing to share. Another example of the “leveling”
But sure, if someone is used to showing up in large scale games with a posse of friends, doing the “‘fake’ lets be friendly” to your neighbors, getting those first few levels of tech (and sharing with their friends behind their back), and then leaving 'em out to dry, that strategy won’t work.
Arth talks about being an intermediary … yes, you can be a player in the middle sharing tech between people on either side … which benefits you … but you better be careful if those two players can see each other, because then they can cut you out of the tech transfers and tag-team on 'ya!
Formal Alliances have other advantages - even if you are far away, they are a HUGE help in trying to determine the layout in a dark galaxy. But to echo what Matt and Arth seem to be saying, my recommendation would be that Formal Alliances NOT allow you to trade tech.
Also, 30 players have two potential enemies and that means two borders to defend, while the ones on the ends only have one. This is what I like the most on trade scanned: it levels the advantage of the corners.
And that’s what I call “bad luck”.
So yes, your other neighbor stopped expanding by tick 48 then logged on 10 hours later and quit. Basically no different than AFK from the start, just expanded a little earlier then stopped.
As for a bunch of us joining together, that just isn’t true. I joined for eDave because he took some of my feedback. I believe Ross did the same. I had intended to take a break after the team game, but had made that promise to eDave. Ross, I believe, did the same for similar reasons. I did not look at the list closely before joining. Just glanced at the open slots, picked a name and joined. Chris joined after I did, and I had no idea Qwerty was there until someone else revealed that to me. I don’t know that I have ever played with Andy, and was introduced to him in game.
When we did realize we were each in the game together, the only “posse” we formed was that of sharing information to try determining where people were in the galaxy. That was no different than half a dozen other small groups that started for the same reason. I believe there were a couple based on shape or color as well. No long term formal alliance was ever formed, because it was pointless with us spread across the galaxy with no tech sharing. That’s why I tried to get something working with my immediate neighbors.
Sure my play to ally a couple neighbor didn’t work out, but that was mostly thanks to the one crazy neighbor who took offense at another player not signing in for a day and demanded we eliminate him. This is the same neighbor that went psycho on me and had to be reported for extreme language.
So despite Hulk’s assertion that having an AFK next to him was a detriment, it really wasn’t. He got a lot of early expansion, then was able to research his own tech. He continues to snowball in size, and has now hooked up with my neighbor so they (the two biggest and highest Science players) can continue to run up tech while steamrolling others.
[Comments below are relevant to why trade with scanned players only is a GREAT idea!]
Brian: I didn’t ever say YOU brought a “posse” to the Dark Spiral game … and while I was talking in generalities, that term came from one of the organizers of the first team game who told me they like to bring their “posse” to games.
As an aside, I’m glad the strong, capable players (plus you of course) you mentioned above are in the Dark Spiral game - makes it more challenging. While I’m off to a good start, this will be a lonnggg game … and I’d say Pink/Purple Triangle (Underlord/Rosslessness) stand a very good chance of winning - decent position, good start, and very strong players. But there are lots of other strong players in the game too.
So back to the person who used the term “posse” - I had actually played with them in an earlier game, allied early on (we were next to each other), and did all the “right” things and then only one other player was left as a serious threat … so I thought HEY, I’m going to finish at least first or second. However, it became clear from the Intel Charts that they were passing tech under the table to this 3rd player across the galaxy.
So I simply wrote 'em a note and said “HEY, there’s no sense in pushing ships around if you guys have already decided I’m the odd man out - just let me know” … and hemming and hawwing (it was obvious I had caught 'em with their hands in the cookie jar!), they informed me they were part of the “posse” and I was hosed. So I just settled for 3rd place - sometimes that’s how the cosmic cookie crumbles! 
BUT … if trade had been limited to scanned players only, I might have stood a chance against these players who brought their “posse” to the game and basically “used” me (it happens - again no sweat) to advance their efforts … so yea, I think it’s an awesome “leveling” idea!
You wrote: “So despite Hulk’s assertion that having an AFK next to him was a detriment, it really wasn’t” - you read that wrong. What I said was the player who had two AFK’ers next to them did not gain the usual advantage because while easier to expand, they had no one to trade tech with initially. Another great example of the “leveling” effect.
WRT Orange Circle: You were apparently tracking the game closer than me, but what I wrote originally was factually correct. And actually, his expansion made moving through his territory a much more difficult than if he had AFK’ed from the start. From my point of view, your play down South had a dramatically bigger difference in how things progressed and my ability to grow.
I said above that enabling trade with scanned players only (and disabling doing so for formal alliances) means you have to use “real” diplomacy. It’s a lot easier to just ally with your friends, but in NP (and the real world), you don’t always get to pick your neighbors … so there’s this whole new dimension added.
It’s obvious I’m trading tech with Orange Triangle in the Dark Spiral game … so while he has a different approach to the game than me (he probably thinks I’m a PIA to work with!), the layout of the board geometry (and thanks to your play down South) means it is mutually helpful for us to work together. FYI that I did warn him you are a very capable player and from what I can tell, you are putting up a very spirited defense against an increasingly stronger opponent.
Jay wrote a post talking about how NP compares to the Diplomacy Board Game. Right now, being able to trade across the galaxy effectively means Japan and Britain can (easily and somewhat stealthy) help each other. By requiring the trading partner to be within (real) scan range, it closes that loophole and makes the game more realistic.
Hulk is throwing me a beat-down in Dark Spiral as we speak. I had 2 AFKers on both sides until he showed up, and I didn’t find this to be any huge advantage at all. I was so far behind in Tech by the time Hulk showed up that he is just plowing right through me.
Now, what would really make for a dark, scary universe is if there is COMMUNICATIONS with scanned players only. //shiver//
Ooh 
Yea, that would be pretty wild … if it could be fairly enforced.
But players know each other in RL (or hook up in the forums, hangouts, etc.), so them having out-of-game communication gives them a leg up over those that don’t.
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But isn’t that true of all games?
Yeah, and you can talk all you want, but if you can’t trade, the advantage is pretty minimal.
I’m not sure how game balance would be affected. It’s the psychological isolating impact I think could be interesting. The Dark Spiral I’ve found frustrating enough. Add in this extra level and I think the game dynamic could really change in interesting ways. Heck, don’t let the inteligence screen even suggest how non-scanned players are even doing. The uncertainty of not knowing if you are competative or not is another fun(??) level of stress.
However, clearly out of game comms are pretty much impossible to enforce. Heck, if there was a “Silent” galaxy, players could still communicate on this very forum.
To make it really, really fair, I suppose a lot of work would have to go into the back end. Player names would not be visible even on scanner contact until the players successfully talked to each other. Perhaps the actual colors would have to appear differently to each player (player 1 sees player 2 as a blue diamond, while player 3 sees player 2 as a yellow circle). That, added to a dark galaxy, would make it more difficult (but still not impossible) for out of game plotting. It might be an interesting experiment; but I doubt it would be popular, and therefor the cost:benefit ratio would not be encouraging.
Still…
I previously suggested limiting communications in this very thread. The added suggestion that we don’t see any player names until they are scanned is a good idea, too.
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The leader board in the emails and in game would only show you and those in scan range and would list their in overall game ranking.
I think some scrambling could do the trick for balancing the scanned-communication. If each player sees different colors, shapes, alias, carrier names and star names, it would be very difficult in a dark galaxy to determine if two players have one common neighbor (so they know their relative position or can combine an attack on two different fronts), even if they exchanged info outside the game. They would only be able to determine each other when they see one another, and even that would be poorly at first, unless of course they send a message in-game.
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Another option for showing intel would be to list the ranking of the players instead of the actual numbers. If they are in 3rd place for the most ships, their ranking would be 3 for the most ships. If you look at someone else’s weapons level, it would look like rank 5 for weapons level instead of saying weapons 13. This will help hide some of the data that players see while letting players still be able to compare their empire to other players. It would give a general idea on the ranking instead of an exact number. I also think the total infrastructure a player has should be completely hidden. Players should still be able to see the infrastructure on stars that are within scanning range. Anything outside of scanning range should have all data except the number of stars that player has completely hidden.
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