I finally got Myk on the Hangout after some testing and research.
If anyone has an issue getting on the hangout, and they have been invited, then tell them they need to:
The Hangouts box can be located on your Google+ page on the right. Click on the Hangouts word at the top and it rolls out a whole column box.
Or if you have the Chrome Extension it has it’s own popup box.
Don’t know if I missed this somewhere in the thread… but was there a reason the map was split into 2 sections this way? Seems like a pretty big disadvantage to be one of the two central teams.
I know it’s pointless to criticize at this stage, but for future teams games I would have thought it would balance out much better if the 6 team areas all had roughly equal gaps in between each other. Great map otherwise.
I was going to flag this up in my post mortem.
It’s a BRAIN! lol
Actually, the general idea was to have gaps between all of the sections. Not necessarily as big as the top and bottom, but preferably in the R9-10 range. Look at the first one posted up higher in this thread.
My graph paper version had many edits, and I actually inverted the coordinates as I wrote them down. Probably distracted by the kids at the time. They then had to be tripled to get the map we have.
Anyway, as Hulk can attest, Custom Map generation is a best guess trial and error process at best. The Starting Distance option doesn’t seem to do what you would expect it to do. Next time I try to use this map, I would probably shift a couple stars. Using just FIST’s segment to illustrate, I would move Red northeast 1-3 coordinates, and Orange east about the same. Duplicate those changes for the other top and bottom locations to increase the gaps with the sides, and decrease the distance between the sides. I’ll play with it some more later, but that is a general correction I would make in the future.
Ditto what Brian said and speaking from experience, I can attest that it’s a “challenge” to generate maps - it’s amazing how “different” they were given the starting positions … and then to have to re-enter everything for the umpteenth time just to see if the stars move around more.
I agree with Myk and Rosslessness that semi-equal spacing would have been better … but I disagree with Brian at HR9/10 spacing. I think HR5 maximum - i.e. sprinkle some more stars between the teams so making a move to the side becomes an viable option … which engages all three players on the team … rather than everyone just goes toward the middle.
I.e. the border between Myk and I was the closest … and we’ve had some great battles …
Brian: I believe there was some slight asymmetry to map - I think that should be cleaned up too - the distances between cores should be the same for fairness.
I’ll have to find and post a picture of the graph paper. I know it wasn’t perfect. At least it was symmetrical on the vertical axis. I don’t know if you can get a perfectly symmetrical map with 6 teams of 3 with this kind of map coordinate system.
As for the gaps, we are on Cycle 7 and Range 7. Maybe start it at 5 and Cheap, but I think driving 3 to the center was a fine idea. teams are doing interesting things with it.
I’d second the range 5 comment. More battles, more interaction.
The problem with HR10 gaps is not necessarily that you won’t eventually get the tech … it’s that the enemy can see you coming a longgggg ways away … and easily defend. Plus even if you get a foothold, it would be almost impossible to hold against all the nearby Industry.
BTW, it occurred to me that Range is actually (in some respects) expensive in this game.
I.e. even though it is cheap to produce, it is expensive to transfer! 
Creating a map sounds like a game in itself.
Create map, go, watch enemies destroy each other super speed.
Nah, start again.
Create map…
repeat.
It isn’t that easy. You can’t play the same map twice! I’d love to have an aggressive AI test process where you could watch the game play out at 1 Tick per second, then reset the map for a real game.
Yea, I think I suggested this a while ago - basically if Jay could add the “random seed” that generates the map to the displayed parameters, and then if you had some way of feeding that back into the game creation, once you have a “good” map, you can easily regenerate.
This is especially handy if you forget to toggle one of the parameters.
With encouragement from WEST Rosslessness and approval from Captain America, here’s an animated GIF of an incredibly bold move by Rosslessness to recapture a 20 Industry star.
It’s a little hard to see since both players are Yellow (CLICK to see flip back-n-forth and BIG), but C-A had just captured a 20 Industry core star from Ross … and had LOTS of reinforcements coming. But Ross made an “ALL-IN” play to re-capture - creating Warp Gates from several nearby stars and sending everything including the kitchen sink … winning back the Industry powerhouse by 8 ships.
While I was bummed to see this happen to my teammate (he did subsequently recapture it), I respect the bold move by Ross.
Is there any reason why I can’t trade tech to my ally (Spanks)? I can’t do it on my phone or the PC - the dropdown box is just blank as if I have nothing to send to him.
@tomkat I’ve never seen that before. Can you send to LDG? Take a picture to post here please.
@JayKyburz possible bug?
I’m looking at your relative tech levels TomKat and I believe both of your teammates are on par with you (?) … so assuming things got worked out.
If not, let Brian know ASAP because if there truly is a glitch, I would propose a pause in the game so it can be worked out.
So I’ll do an early post on the end of this team game.
I’ll start of by admitting that the map was flawed, there was too much of a gap between the top and the bottom. If we go back to my first game setup, it was compensated for with isolating the other arms, but that map drew a huge amount of criticism for forcing teams to go into the center. The funny thing, is that the game would have lasted longer if that first map was used.
Current game:
Original setup:
In the original, which was what I was aiming for when I designed the map, every team would have to make channels for all three players into the center. It created a natural choke point for teams to defend until Range reach high enough levels to make attacking from the sides possible, though the travel time would have made the attacks difficult. Several of the teams ended up doing this anyway, so clearly it was a valid idea.
However, it was insisted that this would leave 2 players on every team would be stuck in support rolls, and we were forced to regenerate the map… Twice.
This left the map very unbalanced, as the distances between the groups at the top and bottom of the map still had a huge gap on one side, meaning they could focus everything in two directions, while the center starts had to defend 3.
We ended up having one team take their AI in the core, then were able to overrun another, and with the bonus of 2 AI home worlds, they were able to route that side team and unbalance the whole game in 10 Cycles.
I think for the next map I try to design, I will need to balance the stars better so that there isn’t that gap. I also think we need to tweak some setting. The 10/20/1 Home Worlds seemed like a good idea, but if you could catch one right as the AI sent out ships, you could claim it relatively early, then gain a huge advantage. In our contact with our neighbor, they are doing a decent job holding their own Home World, but they of course are using rational thought to protect it. The AI can easily be bated into dumping ships even with an attack incoming.
Anyway, the game isn’t over, but it would take the three teams approximately tied for second to take the team in front. .
First, hats off to you Brian for organizing this game … and as I’ve said before, if anyone hasn’t tried doing it, generating maps is a LOT of work. Hopefully Jay can improve the generation process so it’s easier to do and “fill in the gaps” as Brian is suggesting above.
No argument that the board geometry we are playing put the middle teams as a disadvantage - this was obvious from the get-go and why our team made the moves we did … once the dust clears, maybe I’ll talk more about that.
I’ll add that taking the first AI core was a “bet the game” decision that Captain America and I discussed at length - it was far from “easy” that early in the game. Being impatient, I was anxious to do it sooner … but if you lose, you have to start all over getting ship on target, etc. Captain America smartly waited it out (four turns based on my screencaps) and picked the RIGHT time to do it. But yea, from there, the steamroller was moving.
I disagree with you Brian that teams can easily make the jumps between sides. Team FOXY took FOUR tries to make the HR6 toward the WEST teams … making an HR10 (or higher) with the increased Scan later in the game is pretty much impossible IMHO. Unless you are dumb enough to put a WG on your border, that’s a 39 hour transit … and since the defender see’s it coming a lonnngggg ways out, trivial to build Warp Gates nearby to send in reinforcements at 3X speed and defend. Even if the attacking player get lucky and wins (as Team FOXY did on their 3rd try), the defender has a crapload of nearby Industry … whereas the supply line for the attacker is ridiculously far away.
The original map (with HR10 jumps on the sides) would have been 100% dual player support/feed the middle teammate game … no nuances in the strategy and pretty boring if you ask me So I’d suggest HR5 jumps (at most!) between neighbors … keep that strategy aspect in the game that you can attack (and be attacked) from anywhere!
In terms of length of game, I actually prefer shorter/smaller games. This encourages more strategy/decisive decisions … plus reduces the “who has the most weapons and manu” that ends up happening in mega-games … even when you made it expensive - that was smart move BTW.
When I was playing with maps, I thought the “close” parameter would squish 'em closer together … but the generation just doesn’t work that way. If Jay fixes that, a close-in “knife fight” team game would be a blast.
Here’s the expansion map up to Cycle 10 - i.e. 240 ticks.
Captain America is right next to the AI core at Tick 84, but has to wait until Tick 108 to take.
As mentioned, it was a “bet the game” decision - he did it right.
Another big decision was building a Warp gate on “Bright Foe” at Tick 126 (SE corner of Red Hex); that’s a resource ONE star, but we needed a way for me to funnel ships into the middle. I recall it cost over $400 (a LOT back then). Ironically, after using it for a couple of cycles (but it was critical to more success in the middle), it was unused for several cycles while Myk (purple circle) and I pounded each other.
Click on image to see BIG!
I respectfully disagree with regards to the original map being single player with 2 support. 4 of the 6 teams had at least 2 players head towards the center.
I recall seeing a bit of back and forth from you and Myk, so there was obviously some ability to overcome the distance.
As for Team Foxy, I couldn’t tell you how that went, as I couldn’t see any attacks outside of my range. On my team, Matt took the single choke point for low range (needed R4 I think) and then with a couple levels of range more, was able to engage RG3 at several points and establish several footholds.
Overall, I guess we will have to agree to disagree about how that will play out. I’ll probably tweak the map and try it again at some point in the future.
First, I certainly hope my comments are taken constructively as a means of improving future games.
I agree the original map was more balanced - just fill in some stars on the sides if NP will allow it.
Sure, you can always have multiple players go toward the center, but especially early on when money is tight, it’s difficult to build duplicate Warp Gates Networks.
WRT current game:
I, of course, did not have Scan data on FOXY’s jump (purple’s circle to blue square) but was simply looking at Intel charts and the change in color on the galactic maps. I actually sent one of a 'em a note say “maybe 3rd time is a charm” and they seemed to confirm that was accurate … but it took a 4th time for it to stick.
Yea, Myk and I battled hard with some good back-forth … you can see that in the expansion maps.
However, the biggest jump between Myk and I was HR5 … that’s an order of magnitude (or more!) easier to get across than an HR10 jump. I predict NOBODY in the current game makes a successful HR10 jump and sticks.
P.S. Yea, Matt (Pink Hex I assume you are talking about) only had to make an HR4 jump. The only other notable side-jump I was was an HR6 by Cyan Circle made to Cyan Square from Sigma Theemin to Algorab at tick 402. I don’t know how many times that was attempted. Again, much, much, much easier than an HR10.
Update: That’s obviously an HR10 jump against an hostile opponent that is still viable is darn hard.