Possible Bug or Misunderstanding?


#1

Hey. New player here. I have seen a potential problem that I’d like to discuss; perhaps it’s just me not understanding the game well enough.

I started one of your beginner games and 7 others joined in. So far, so good.

Well, a week into the game; most people have dropped out and are being controlled by the Computer. Fine. I can deal with that. Not fun, but it’s a game, so continue on.

Except one thing. Now all the computer players hate me and they are all WAY above me in tech. I have 25-30 points per turn in research and each of the computer players have anywhere from 2 to 5 points in research. And yet, I am WAY behind in every category. WTF? Plus, I am now hated by all of the computer players (some of whom were previously allies) and they refuse to trade any of this new glorious tech with a poor human player.

This is really making the game non-enjoyable… and, to be honest, does not really seem very realistic.

Am I just that bad a player? Missing something basic? Or is the game just that ‘human-racist’?


#2

Care you tell us how many stars you have in comparison to them?


#3

I’ve currently got 39 stars vs their 15-19 stars. I get them hating me.

What I don’t get is their huge jumps in tech. Even if they were sharing tech, and each were working on different areas and cooperating fully… they still should not be that far ahead tech-wise. It’s as if they are on 1/4 scaled tech cost or something similar.


#4

Are other human players feeding them tech?


#5

Seems really unlikely because the computer players are way above THEM.

I guess they might have to begin with, then realized the stupidity of that tactic maybe?


#6

The AI doesn’t cheat on tech or anything. They just trade.

When I get back to working on the AI I would like to make it easier to get an AI back on side, then you can start trading with them.


#7

@JayKyburz

From my experiences of playing, I’ve always believed that the a.i. should be negotiable, since it gives more manipulative variables. Foremost, disposition is fine; however, the amount of credits needed bribe needs to be cut down to 10 credits increase per day. It is frustrating to deal with an obnoxious super a.i. with only credits. For example, imagine paying off 3 levels of disposition for 500 credits and ask yourself, won’t that be detrimental to my progress? Fortunately, I haven’t had that happen to me, but I’ve forced this situation on my rivals every game. That isn’t fair for those who aren’t familiar with the a.i. trade exploit. For instance, if I profusely prioritize trading tech with the a.i., I can inhibit my competitors from taking advantage of the a.i. tech trade. That leads the player to buy off the expensive disposition. Therefore, I feel the a.i. needs a higher capacity to diplomacy or just more functions in general.


#8

I’m a Lifetime Premium Player and I just don’t enjoy the game much any more. I’d like a switch to set the AI back to the way it used to be as part of game setup. Now it has just become a battle of survival when half the players drop out. Not happy.


#9

I hear you @leonardebaker. I will make a note to have an option to disable the AI, or perhaps AI difficulty.

I agree that the AI is not “fun” at the moment. I want it chat with you, build an alliance with you, get angry with you.

I’m looking forward to building it. I hope it will be fun for you guys to help me test and develop.


#10

Hey Jay…quick follow up side question for ya:

I’m currently having a “debate” with some allies in a 64 player game about AI tactics. Does the AI in the large games behave differently than the AI in standard games?

I asked @AnnanFay and his (or her) response was that AI particulars only happened in turned based and dark games, but wasn’t sure about 64 player games.

So…could you settle this one for us? :smile:


#11

I think AI behave the same everywhere.

So what is different ? Some games have a setting,
either allow trading with all players,
or trades are limited to players within scan range only.

So most ( I think all ) STANDARD 8 player games allow trade with all players,
and the 64 player game limits trading to within scan range only.

That second setting prevents the run-away trading effect that you could get with the first setting.

EDIT


#12

If enough human players AFK/QUIT, then I think it is quite reasonable that the Bots should “win” the game! :wink:

So while the AI shouldn’t outright cheat (i.e. make long range jumps it doesn’t have hyper for), I’m OK with it doing intra-turn reaction moves (this is a major challenge in turn-based games) and generally trying to kick the sh*t out of the remaining human player.

If nothing else, it adds another dimension to the game since the human players may have to band together to defeat the AI … which is kinda like Blight in a way - right?

If you de-tune the AI, I would encourage you to make this a game creation option.

P.S. Ditto what xjhdexter said about trading is much reduced if trade-scan ONLY is enabled … which is an option I really like as it forces you to work with your neighbors rather than sniping tech from the far corners of the galaxy.

If this is OFF, then the AI trades like crazy … if you want to have fun, create a 8-user game (with password so you have control) and then force start the game with just you versus 7-bots … it’s a challenge!!!


#13

One possible difference is that AI with more than 50 stars basically shut down. This is one of the many things I hope to fix when working on the AI again.


#14

ah, ok…good to know. Thanks for the response!


#15

Actually, I did see one outright cheat recently. The AI player I was attacking had range to reach the star I was attacking from, but not enough scanning. (Note: Dark game, stars only visible within scan range.) Because it couldn’t see the star I was attacking from, I didn’t leave any defenders - but it sent a counter-attack anyway.


#16

Yes sorry Litchfield, There is a bug that allows the AI to cheat right now. It will be the very first bug I fix when I get back to working on NP. (They jump further than their range allows - also, the don’t know about dark galaxy games where they must check both range and scanning! )