Yea, I think I suggested this a while ago - basically if Jay could add the “random seed” that generates the map to the displayed parameters, and then if you had some way of feeding that back into the game creation, once you have a “good” map, you can easily regenerate.
This is especially handy if you forget to toggle one of the parameters.
With encouragement from WEST Rosslessness and approval from Captain America, here’s an animated GIF of an incredibly bold move by Rosslessness to recapture a 20 Industry star.
It’s a little hard to see since both players are Yellow (CLICK to see flip back-n-forth and BIG), but C-A had just captured a 20 Industry core star from Ross … and had LOTS of reinforcements coming. But Ross made an “ALL-IN” play to re-capture - creating Warp Gates from several nearby stars and sending everything including the kitchen sink … winning back the Industry powerhouse by 8 ships.
While I was bummed to see this happen to my teammate (he did subsequently recapture it), I respect the bold move by Ross.
Is there any reason why I can’t trade tech to my ally (Spanks)? I can’t do it on my phone or the PC - the dropdown box is just blank as if I have nothing to send to him.
@tomkat I’ve never seen that before. Can you send to LDG? Take a picture to post here please.
@JayKyburz possible bug?
I’m looking at your relative tech levels TomKat and I believe both of your teammates are on par with you (?) … so assuming things got worked out.
If not, let Brian know ASAP because if there truly is a glitch, I would propose a pause in the game so it can be worked out.
So I’ll do an early post on the end of this team game.
I’ll start of by admitting that the map was flawed, there was too much of a gap between the top and the bottom. If we go back to my first game setup, it was compensated for with isolating the other arms, but that map drew a huge amount of criticism for forcing teams to go into the center. The funny thing, is that the game would have lasted longer if that first map was used.
Current game:
Original setup:
In the original, which was what I was aiming for when I designed the map, every team would have to make channels for all three players into the center. It created a natural choke point for teams to defend until Range reach high enough levels to make attacking from the sides possible, though the travel time would have made the attacks difficult. Several of the teams ended up doing this anyway, so clearly it was a valid idea.
However, it was insisted that this would leave 2 players on every team would be stuck in support rolls, and we were forced to regenerate the map… Twice.
This left the map very unbalanced, as the distances between the groups at the top and bottom of the map still had a huge gap on one side, meaning they could focus everything in two directions, while the center starts had to defend 3.
We ended up having one team take their AI in the core, then were able to overrun another, and with the bonus of 2 AI home worlds, they were able to route that side team and unbalance the whole game in 10 Cycles.
I think for the next map I try to design, I will need to balance the stars better so that there isn’t that gap. I also think we need to tweak some setting. The 10/20/1 Home Worlds seemed like a good idea, but if you could catch one right as the AI sent out ships, you could claim it relatively early, then gain a huge advantage. In our contact with our neighbor, they are doing a decent job holding their own Home World, but they of course are using rational thought to protect it. The AI can easily be bated into dumping ships even with an attack incoming.
Anyway, the game isn’t over, but it would take the three teams approximately tied for second to take the team in front. .
First, hats off to you Brian for organizing this game … and as I’ve said before, if anyone hasn’t tried doing it, generating maps is a LOT of work. Hopefully Jay can improve the generation process so it’s easier to do and “fill in the gaps” as Brian is suggesting above.
No argument that the board geometry we are playing put the middle teams as a disadvantage - this was obvious from the get-go and why our team made the moves we did … once the dust clears, maybe I’ll talk more about that.
I’ll add that taking the first AI core was a “bet the game” decision that Captain America and I discussed at length - it was far from “easy” that early in the game. Being impatient, I was anxious to do it sooner … but if you lose, you have to start all over getting ship on target, etc. Captain America smartly waited it out (four turns based on my screencaps) and picked the RIGHT time to do it. But yea, from there, the steamroller was moving.
I disagree with you Brian that teams can easily make the jumps between sides. Team FOXY took FOUR tries to make the HR6 toward the WEST teams … making an HR10 (or higher) with the increased Scan later in the game is pretty much impossible IMHO. Unless you are dumb enough to put a WG on your border, that’s a 39 hour transit … and since the defender see’s it coming a lonnngggg ways out, trivial to build Warp Gates nearby to send in reinforcements at 3X speed and defend. Even if the attacking player get lucky and wins (as Team FOXY did on their 3rd try), the defender has a crapload of nearby Industry … whereas the supply line for the attacker is ridiculously far away.
The original map (with HR10 jumps on the sides) would have been 100% dual player support/feed the middle teammate game … no nuances in the strategy and pretty boring if you ask me So I’d suggest HR5 jumps (at most!) between neighbors … keep that strategy aspect in the game that you can attack (and be attacked) from anywhere! 
In terms of length of game, I actually prefer shorter/smaller games. This encourages more strategy/decisive decisions … plus reduces the “who has the most weapons and manu” that ends up happening in mega-games … even when you made it expensive - that was smart move BTW.
When I was playing with maps, I thought the “close” parameter would squish 'em closer together … but the generation just doesn’t work that way. If Jay fixes that, a close-in “knife fight” team game would be a blast.
Here’s the expansion map up to Cycle 10 - i.e. 240 ticks.
Captain America is right next to the AI core at Tick 84, but has to wait until Tick 108 to take.
As mentioned, it was a “bet the game” decision - he did it right.
Another big decision was building a Warp gate on “Bright Foe” at Tick 126 (SE corner of Red Hex); that’s a resource ONE star, but we needed a way for me to funnel ships into the middle. I recall it cost over $400 (a LOT back then). Ironically, after using it for a couple of cycles (but it was critical to more success in the middle), it was unused for several cycles while Myk (purple circle) and I pounded each other.
Click on image to see BIG!
I respectfully disagree with regards to the original map being single player with 2 support. 4 of the 6 teams had at least 2 players head towards the center.
I recall seeing a bit of back and forth from you and Myk, so there was obviously some ability to overcome the distance.
As for Team Foxy, I couldn’t tell you how that went, as I couldn’t see any attacks outside of my range. On my team, Matt took the single choke point for low range (needed R4 I think) and then with a couple levels of range more, was able to engage RG3 at several points and establish several footholds.
Overall, I guess we will have to agree to disagree about how that will play out. I’ll probably tweak the map and try it again at some point in the future.
First, I certainly hope my comments are taken constructively as a means of improving future games.
I agree the original map was more balanced - just fill in some stars on the sides if NP will allow it.
Sure, you can always have multiple players go toward the center, but especially early on when money is tight, it’s difficult to build duplicate Warp Gates Networks.
WRT current game:
I, of course, did not have Scan data on FOXY’s jump (purple’s circle to blue square) but was simply looking at Intel charts and the change in color on the galactic maps. I actually sent one of a 'em a note say “maybe 3rd time is a charm” and they seemed to confirm that was accurate … but it took a 4th time for it to stick.
Yea, Myk and I battled hard with some good back-forth … you can see that in the expansion maps.
However, the biggest jump between Myk and I was HR5 … that’s an order of magnitude (or more!) easier to get across than an HR10 jump. I predict NOBODY in the current game makes a successful HR10 jump and sticks.
P.S. Yea, Matt (Pink Hex I assume you are talking about) only had to make an HR4 jump. The only other notable side-jump I was was an HR6 by Cyan Circle made to Cyan Square from Sigma Theemin to Algorab at tick 402. I don’t know how many times that was attempted. Again, much, much, much easier than an HR10.
Update: That’s obviously an HR10 jump against an hostile opponent that is still viable is darn hard.
Yeah it did take us 4 attempts, we could have been a bit more coordinated tbh but it was still a tricky jump.
I knew right away that I had to grab that choke point and beat RG3 to it by a few hours. It took a while to get ships up there to make an attack (as you can see me stuck on 41 stars for the longest time) and to make it effective.
Exile is a difficult word in any language, but as I stare out across the galaxy at the carnage unfolding I thank the Elders that my race lives on.
I know that the fate of my people relies on the mercy of those who were my bitterest enemies. They could snuff me out at any moment, a mere insect before their great empire. So even as I lie by my pool, I am aware my time may well be short.
So let me tell you the tale of the Empire of the West…
Myk, Selkie and myself were an alliance with very little internal dispute. Our initial plans were carefully debated and easy to justify.
Myk – The plan for Myk was to advance quickly towards Okul, the system on his border working as a choke point between his empire and the FISTS.
Selkie – Selkie, being the most isolated of the three of us, was designated our bank and research unit.
Rosslessness – Centrally placed, my plan was to hit Winner land (The AI core) as quickly as possible.
Formal alliance requests were filed almost immediately, and predetermined borders between the three of us were negotiated. I refused my entire western flank, reasoning that if my two allies had larger empires, it would make them more efficient as the game progressed.
The specific setup and AI centre presented very specific challenges. The lack of starting ships and systems meant that initial expansion was very slow. To combat these problems, my strategy was to do everything possible to curtail the AI players, most notably green hexagons, centred on Zosma.
Over the first three days I invested almost half my initial investment cash in warp gates. The idea was simple; chain looping carriers to get as many ships to the core of the AI immediately. Seizing a 20 industry world would not only double my production, but would provide me with an unstoppable number of local ships to overtake the other AI’s.
Initially my strategy was hugely successful. In the expansion phase I won the race to many worlds the AI’s were spreading out to claim. While some AI’s had 25 worlds under their control, my first opponent was limited to a mere 13. More importantly, I destroyed carriers and ships sent robotically at planets squarely in my control.
Then on, turn 74, less than 4 days after the start of the conflict my fleet of 126 ships entered the Zosma system. They were flying totally blind and represented more than 60% of my forces. This was to be the turning point.
When the dust settled Zosma had held. 173 ships had stood in my way. The high risk strategy had failed. It would take me another 3 days to mount another assault with any hope of success. Those three days cost me my whole empire…
A weakened AI is an easy opponent and slowly world after world was gobbled up, culminating in the seizure of Zosma.
In the north Myk had reached Okul, but his scout force was easily repulsed by a group of 50 ships belonging to Hulk. This was the start of the “Whisky Stalemate”, featuring lots of talking but little actual fighting.
My initial gamble seemed to have paid off. My seizure of AI worlds left me with one of the highest Industry totals in the game. My research labs outnumbered those of Selkie, our designated researcher. Seizing resources seemed a lot easier than buying them.
In truth, we’d lost the war already by this point, but we didn’t realise it. We each had a successful empire, but the issue was that we weren’t a true alliance.
Finally, our discussions turned to an attack against our sentient opponents. Myk had a weapon tech and ship advantage over Hulk and wanted to attack, so we agreed he should focus on an all-out assault. By this time Captain America had begun to move his strike fleets into a position to crush me. Slowly, but surely FIST had been feeding their combined ship count into Captain America’s fleets, emptying their home worlds safe in their closed northern border.
In contrast, the WEST alliance had kept their fleets entirely separate, guarding across all borders. The LDG had poured all their resources into Hyperspace research and were now a viable threat to our border.
Myk was successful in his assaults, overtaking the chokepoint and advancing into Hulk territory. However, my own battles were less successful. My fleets already weakened by my battles with the AI were already fighting a battle of retreat.
The Attack on Hulk also meant that almost a third of FIST fleets were diverted to the defence of his borders. It was a faint glimmer of hope, and for a few hours our battle lines held.
Just as it was in attack, Zosma was vital in defence. With Fist already having captured the AI homeworld of Blue Menkar, it was vital that I stopped them seizing a second. Every delaying tactic possible was attempted, and for a few hours Zosma was reclaimed.
But I fought alone, and I couldn’t stand. No empire could aid me, and my costly warpgates and carriers bled my empire dry. My victory was short lived, and only delayed the inevitable.
In the south Wave after wave of ships pounded Selkie, as LDG lost thousands of ships. We pleaded with them. All they were doing was gifting the galaxy to FIST, but still they came, dashing their ships like waves against rock.
With great pressure came mistakes. To the north Myk set up a warp gate network forgetting that his opponents could also use them. To the south Selkie hesitated in building his own gates, leading to his reinforcements failing to reach the front lines in time.
At the same time my warp gates were being smashed by my own hands. Spankster, ignoring requests for help had begun seizing my worlds, content to let Captain America seize the advantage untouched. World by world I was driven back to this final, quiet sanctuary, left alone whilst others struggle for supremacy.
What did LDG gain from their attack on us? At the current moment they have gained only 15 worlds. I find it a poor price for so much blood.
On the positive side, I feel I’ve learned a lot. So if I’m ever trusted with billions of lives on scores of planets ever again, I’ll do a much better job.
Anyway… Where is that cocktail waitress?
Nice game appraisal Rosslessness.
That warp gate mistake still chafes, especially because I was trying to draw HULK in by moving my forces off Okul thinking I had the speed advantage to get back there before any of his attacks could land. Lesson learned! The green beast aint stoopid ;-D In any case my mistake only sped up the inevitable so no biggie in the grand scheme of things, and like any game or sport in life you only improve by playing people better than yourself.
Selkie did an epic job holding off 2 attackers for so long.
Look forward to playing with any of you guys again… hoping to meet Hulk in a regular game soon >:-D
Thanks Myk. I think as a team we all learned something new.
Stick around Myk, I have a new map design, it is much more evenly balanced. I’m thinking we will play it real time, although likely slow. No waiting for people to submit turns, and AFK would be about 6 days. I’m still pushing for a semi slow speed, as I think that would allow plenty of time, and shift production times 12h each cycle.
I want in!!!
Me Too! Mega Homeworlds again?
did that work out for you last time? 
I’d be well up for a team event if anyone needs a straggler! ;D